Cat Rambo ([info]catrambo) wrote,
@ 2007-07-24 10:15:00
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Current mood: infuriated
Entry tags:armageddon, censorship

Gaming and Hatespeech

While I was off at Taos, apparently the Armageddon message boards blew up when a post about how the world had gone to hell since women got the vote was moderated. I just deleted two nasty posts and warned the posters, and then had someone earnestly tell me that they were “just making fun of political correctness.”

But here’s the thing:

For one, those boards are often the first thing a potential player sees about the game. I don’t know that threads like “Girl-boobs” are the best representation of the community, but okay. I know that posts where people use the word “faggot” or tell people to “get back into the kitchen, bitch” step over the line, though.

We want more female players. One of the strategies for getting them is not to have a board where they are marginalized, objectified, or insulted on a daily basis. This is one of the reasons that we DO have more female players than similar games.

Beyond that, language shapes our perception of reality. If I saw someone beating a child, I’d step in. If I see someone else perpetuating thought models that allow, for example, Matthew Shephard to be beaten to death because of his sexuality, in a place that I sponsor and pay to have maintained, I will step in again. That doesn’t happen on my dime. Never. People are welcome to talk about how horrible it is that their free speech is being curtailed. It’s not a right that is extended on those boards, and we’ve been at great pains to make that clear. And yet, every year, it comes up once again.

It’s so sad that “political correctness” has come to mean ridiculous, stifling actions, and it’s another example of how the left letting the conservatives redefine a word, just as they did with “liberal” and “feminist”. When are we going to do some of that on our own? How about starting with “conservative”?




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[info]dawtheminstrel
2007-07-24 05:47 pm UTC (link)
I loathe the use of "political correctness" as a term to dismiss attempts to notice when people are trampling over the dignity of others. Slapping on that label is not an argument, at least not one that makes any difference.

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[info]kelly_yoyo
2007-07-24 06:27 pm UTC (link)
Well said DAW!

I remember when political correctness was something to strive for, not to make fun of.

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[info]lordofallfools
2007-07-24 06:19 pm UTC (link)
Good on you for sticking to your guns, Cat.

It’s so sad that “political correctness” has come to mean ridiculous, stifling actions, and it’s another example of how the left letting the conservatives redefine a word, just as they did with “liberal” and “feminist”. When are we going to do some of that on our own? How about starting with “conservative”?

If I recall, it wasn't just the conservatives that knocked 'political correctness--' pretty much everyone did. It was doomed from its inception. Any movement that overtly (that's key-- "overtly") tries to modify people's use of language is going to meet with strong resistance.

As it should. I'm all for civil discourse, but the PC movement edged far too close to making certain ways of speaking thoughtcrime.

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[info]catrambo
2007-07-24 06:45 pm UTC (link)
See, I'm not aware of there ever being a genuine PC movement except in cartoons and media representations of it. I remember the phrase originating as a way for leftists to poke a little gentle fun at themselves and their own attempts to live their values, and the message at the time seemed to be something along the lines of "Yep, this can get a little silly at times, but perhaps it's better to err on the side of politeness anyhow".

Maybe that's just me imposing my own interpretation on it, though. I was raised close to academia, though, as the child of a political science professor and I am sure there were plenty of goofy (but I would argue good-hearted) people who took things pretty far. At the time I came through college (the 80s), though, professors still felt free to do things like inform women in their classes that they would never get anywhere in their chosen field or that it was pointless to teach them because they would just get marrier. Even in grad school in the 90s, in much more liberal universities, there was still plenty of university-sanctioned political incorrectness.

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[info]lmarley
2007-07-24 06:59 pm UTC (link)
Misogyny is at the root of many of these problems, I'm afraid. We have a long way to go before some men (and not a few women) will be truly comfortable with women stepping out of the age-old role of sex object/mother/nurturer. Look at the way the political right is dissecting Hillary Clinton's dress and manner! And look at the way they ignore similar issues with male candidates. I'm not a gamer, so I'm actually startled to hear that these attitudes spill over into that area, but it's all of a piece, I'm afraid.

As a woman who came of age on the crest of the wave of the first feminist movement, I've struggled with this for a long time. My own beloved father was conflicted about it! He raised me to believe I could do anything--no job was too hard, physically or mentally; and yet, like your college professors, he felt marriage was the ultimate goal, and that when that happened, my husband would be in charge. (Sorry, Jake. You might have liked that!:-))

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[info]birdhousefrog
2007-07-24 07:20 pm UTC (link)
You're in the right. It's not free speech on the boards, otherwise one would have anarchy. It's a society and one can state just about anything, but not if it's hurtful to others. That's poor manners, not free speech. And you're so right about whether a woman would play. I wouldn't play seeing any of the comments/subject lines you list.

Oz

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[info]shelly_rae
2007-07-25 01:30 pm UTC (link)
Oh the great irony, "the world has gone to hell since women got the vote?" sheesh. Sounds like a white guy who not only can't get a date but is bummed because women and non-whites think they can be seen in public. Makes me wonder if he even knows what year that was. Which is completely not the point I know.

In my work with medieval texts I've dealt with issues of anti-semitism, xenophobias, misogyny and even gynophobia so I'm very much aware of how much better things are now than they used to be. That doesn't mean there's equality by any means--but the fact that you and others take strong and level-headed stances against such ignorance (I'd say evils but that smacks of a perjorative too) is a sign of how far we've come as a society.

As a gamer I've been persistent in my demands for respect and being treated like a player rather than "a player with boobs" but I've not seen any more misogyny in that group than any other.

I'm pleased that you're standing your ground on this issue Cat (and honored to call you friend).

Oh and can I play?
Anon

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[info]catrambo
2007-07-25 09:33 pm UTC (link)
Anyone is welcome to play! :) I take no responsibility for any resulting loss of productivity.

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